Justice vs Social Justice and Why it matters

During the course of paying attention this case and the people participating in the various discussions surrounding it, I have observed that the people who support Blake Lively, believe whole-heartedly that she was sexually harassed. They don’t entertain the idea or even the possibility that a woman could lie about such a serious allegation.  

After all, fake allegations of DV, SA & SH are rare. Therefore, to them, it must seem as if it is not worth paying attention to. Bear with me as I try to break down why I believe it is important, why it is worth paying attention to.

Many of the people who believe Blake Lively seem to be under the impression that Justin Baldoni supporters are quick to discredit her on the basis of her past transgressions: her mean girl behavior, her racist history and her blatant disregard for survivors of DV, SA and SH.

Now, while I do believe misogyny/internalized misogyny play a part in terms of social response to this case, it’s not the only reason that people are they are drawn to it or invested.

Let me explain what I mean:

While going back and forth in the comment section in one of my own posts, one of the commenters said that they believed Blake Lively. I wish I could link what they said or quote it verbatim but after a very brief exchange, they down-voted my comment, deleted theirs and disappeared.

So, working from memory, this is the gist of what they said:

• Blake Lively tried to set boundaries on set
• Justin Baldoni was aggressive in the way he overtly went after Blake Lively’s reputation
• Men are allowed to be aggressive to get what they want in the work-place without repercussions
• That social response to the case shows people’s inherent dislike for women
• If there even a single discrepancy or “lie” in a woman’s testimony, people will use it to question everything else she says or discredit her entirely.
• They alluded to idea that Blake being an “imperfect victim”.  

To this commenter, I said verbatim:

I do think misogyny has a part to play in terms of public response but that is not just because she's a woman. It's because judging by the information we have so far, she appears to be a guilty woman and nothing in history of mankind can unite people faster than that.

One interesting word you used in your response is "overtly". Yes, he overtly goes after her reputation. But he did this only after she covertly tried to destroy his.

Look, I don't believe BL. But I respect that you do.

I also do think there is a case to be made for imperfect victims, but this isn't one of them. Mostly because as is stands, she doesn't seem like a victim at all. If anything, she's the aggressor.

An imperfect victim would be someone that unknowingly does things that puts them in dangerous or disempowered position. A girl wearing provocative outfit and getting drunk at a frat party is an imperfect victim. A woman flirting with her boss before she was SA'd by him is an imperfect victim.

An imperfect victim is one that has maybe one to two inconsistencies in their filing but the majority of their claims can be proven true and can be supported with evidence and this is where Blake Lively falls short.

(Side note: Just thinking about this interaction makes me realize that I have a lot to say about the “the imperfect victim” argument but I will try to get to that on another post. Looking back, I also wish I phrased this part of my comment better)

Too much of her complaint can be debunked by the evidence JB has provided. She makes it out to seem like almost everyone on that set was out to SH her, not just JB. The issues change from SH to fat shaming to a smear campaign.

In her own complaint she appears to use the phrase "no more" as if to taunt Baldoni. She does not attach the actual document that Jamey Heath signed on behalf of Wayfarer Studios. Nothing about how they handled the situation reflects the gravity SH allegations. Both she and husband basically turned it into a practical joke, even.

Was she probably uncomfortable and self-conscious in that set? Absolutely. She was postpartum, she wanted to lose 20 lbs. for the role, she wanted to control how she would look in the movie and what started off as something small like wanting to control her character's wardrobe spiraled and spiraled until it got out of control. Re-writing scenes, insisting on her cut of the movie, that is not setting boundaries.

I agree that we still have to wait for the evidence that JB has provided to be examined in court. We have to see if it stands up to scrutiny and has not been mischaracterized in anyway. I agree that both parties have the right to present their case and opinions at this stage should be held tentatively until we have all relevant facts.

But I don't think that misogyny/internalized misogyny is the only reason for the public response. A lot of it also has to do with people's sense of justice when we see someone who has been wronged. Some of that is people's willingness to root for the underdog. The public persona of each of these people play a role. Social media vs Hollywood PR machine and mainstream media play a role. So, while I think there is some merit to what you said in comment, in my mind, to sweep it all under the rug of misogyny is very narrow-minded way to look at things.
tl;dr Agree to disagree.

To my response, the commenter’s reaction was bizarre. They basically ignored everything I said in my comment and posed a lot of questions to me that involved the wild speculations happening in the public sphere as if I was meant to answer or defend them. It was misdirection at its finest and I remember being disturbed when I read them. One of the questions was something along the lines of: If Blake Lively was attracted to Justin Baldoni, does not mean it was not sexual harassment? Another asked, what if Justin Baldoni was a POC, would people be more willing to believe Blake Lively then?

It was clear that the commenter was deeply concerned with the “Social Justice” angle of this case rather than the allegations themselves. They even contradicted themselves by suggesting that Blake was attracted to Baldoni because I would literally never make this argument! While I have seen many people speculate that she was attracted to him, I don’t take it seriously because to me, it hits to close to home of the way women have been discredited in the past. It’s the “oh she must have wanted it” argument. Also, another way women have also been discredited in the past is by direct attacks on her reputation, the media or even attorneys in court, would bring up the woman’s past relationships or past promiscuity and that is why I ignore the people who brings up Blake’s history of dating her co-stars or the possibility that her relationship with now husband, Ryan Reynolds started when he was still married to Scarlett Johansson.

One thing that was made clear from this interaction however, is that the people who support Blake Lively are measuring social response and they are doing that much more than they paying attention to the allegations made in the case itself and the evidence each side has provided to support their claims.

They are looking at the ways in which Blake is being treated unfairly by the public: all the cruel jokes made at her expense, the TikTok videos tearing down her past work or insinuating she was attracted to Justin Baldoni, the comments and skits making fun of her appearance or her mannerisms.  They are looking at people who are coming up with wild theories, conflating the things she has said in past interviews and as a response to that social injustice, they are firmly holding to the things Blake Lively claimed in her CRD complaint, whether or not it may be true.

To the commenter I said this:

Your arguments in defense of Blake Lively all have to do wild speculations happening in the public sphere rather than discussing the actual allegations made by each side and the evidence each has provided to support their claims.

We will be talking in circles because it is clear we approach this case from two very different POVs. Whether or not she is guilty, you are using Blake Lively as a case study to examine the ways that a woman's SH claims can unduly dismissed by the public and I am more concerned with the actual particulars of the case itself.

If you paid attention to one of my responses on this very post, I shoot down one commenter who suggested that there was "mental intimacy" between Blake and JB because I am very careful not to discredit Blake for the reasons that women are normally discredited. I discredit her based on the evidence that has been presented.

For me Justice matters. The moment you try to add an agenda to it; it becomes more about measuring "social impact" and wanting "social justice" more than it is about pursuing the truth.

And here is why pursuing the truth is important:

There are women who put out fake claims of SH, SA or DV. And the women who do that make it harder for the women who actually experience those things to be believed. And if as women we care about these issues, we have to call it out when it happens.

And we can't call it out and be fair about it at the same time without getting deeply into the grit of the case itself and examining each on a case-by-case basis since they are all different.

I believe women deserve to be seen and heard but their testimony has to stand up to scrutiny in court and so far, according to the evidence that has been provided by each side, Blake Lively's doesn't. And that makes her an unsuitable candidate to advocate for on the basis that she's a woman.

Just because fake allegations of SH, SA, and DV are rare, it does not mean it does not happen. We have a responsibility to call it out because in this way by being fair and by focusing on the truth, men and women can work together to dismantle the social system of patriarchy and its unfair social constructs and human society can evolve and move towards lasting change instead turning it into a battle of the sexes.

As I said, I am more than happy to wait and see what they court decides after both sides have been given the opportunity to present their case but calling it "misogyny" when that is yet to happen, is extremely biased POV.

That is all I have to say on the matter.

Naturally after I posted that, the commenter deleted their comments and we did not discuss it further.

Here’s the thing though: I have tried my utmost to be fair to both Parties during my examination of this case. I do believe that some people are blindly supporting Justin Baldoni because they have an agenda just as I believe some people are blindly supporting Blake Lively because they have an agenda.

That will always be the case in a case like this.

As much as we try, for some, it will always be reduced to a battle of the sexes.

In arguments such as these, statistics are often used to discredit, when their purpose was to point out disparity and nothing else. Just because false accusations of SH, SA, and DV are rare, that does not mean it does not happen.

For example, just because, more often than not, it is women are that are stalked, harassed or sexually assaulted or unfairly tarnished by the media, it does not mean it does not happen to men.

And if as women, we don’t call it out when it happens or stand on men’s side when they are legitimately victims, how we expect them to stand on ours when we are?

My argument with the commenter was not that Blake was not SH. My argument was that we have to focus on particulars of the case itself, we have to focus on being fair and on uncovering the truth and if, IF it turns out that the allegations she made are false then is everyone’s best interest, even women’s, to stand on Justin Baldoni’s side.

I will say it until I am blue in the face and voice is gone: A reactive response to an unfair social construct is not a valid way to dismantle that construct.

I encourage everyone reading this to call out the propaganda or misogyny related to this case.

Call out the comedic skits on social media, call out the cruel comments made at Blake Lively’s expense or failing that, do not support it.

Don’t “like” those posts or those comments.  Don’t give it attention. If it pops up and you happen to see it, keep scrolling, dislike or respond by calling it out.

Recently, I broke down an article by The Hollywood Reporter. The writer said: “A man accused of workplace sexual harassment, it seems, doesn’t trigger the socials quite as much as a woman accused of being a mean girl” As much as I think that the writer of that article was biased, they do have a point!

This truth is that, this particular social response or social shaming does not exist when men are perpetrators and should not exist when women are perpetrators. People have an unnatural way of feeling “justified” in tearing women down in cases such as these but as commonplace as such things have become, it also detracts from the case itself and as long as it exists, it will be misused.

But if we dismantle it, perpetrators like Amber Heard for instance, will not be able to point to it or misuse it as a defense against a guilty verdict.

And if, IF any of you reading this post thinks that you may have been unfairly swayed to support for Justin Baldoni based on these things, take a step back, look at the filings, focus the facts, the things that can be proven with evidence and form an opinion based on that and that alone.

In this way, by being fair and by focusing on the truth, everyone can work together to dismantle unfair social constructs that negatively affect both genders.

The heart of it is this: Patriarchy is an unfair social system but we dismantle that system by being fair and by being dedicated to the truth. And to do that:

• We have to focus on the particulars of each case where gender and gender dynamics play a role
• We have to pay specific attention to the claims that can be supported by evidence before we make assumptions on what is true
• We have to break down the ways that women are unfairly targeted by the media and the public
• We have to include men in the conversation when they are victimized in the ways that are normally attributed to women because that does happen

To make an assumption on someone's innocence or guilt based on gender is unfair and biased and that is why the court does its utmost to keep public opinion out of courtroom.

For this reason, Justice is more important than Social Justice. And we would all do well to remember that.